I'm Rebecca Hunter and this is Take Out Therapy. As a private practice therapist, I've helped a lot of people work through some of the most common everyday issues using new tools and greater insight. If you have any interest in doing some personal growth work, this might be the perfect place for you.
In the next 20 minutes, I'll walk you through a commonly explored topic in therapy and provide you with actual tools to deal with it. It's that simple. Obviously, this is not a substitute for therapy, but I think it could be helpful.
Thanks for being here. Hello, my friends. I come to you today fresh off of a nice, robust argument with my husband, which is a great setup for today's episode about defensiveness.
It's interesting in my work because what I see as a pervasive problem in many relationships and even my own at times is this defensiveness that we have really against each other. When we are defensive and we feel that we need to defend our position, which by the way, is a human thing, not a dysfunctional thing, we all get defensive, but what happens and the problem with it that I want to talk with you about today is that defensiveness keeps us disconnected from each other. Here's the deal with humans.
We're just inherently defensive. We get very into deflecting any feedback that's coming our way because listening to things that or problems that people have with us or hearing about how we've disappointed somebody or hearing kind of what is wrong with us, it really hurts our feelings. Everybody, I mean, everybody feels this way.
I mean, if you're a person that never gets your feelings hurt by getting feedback, call me up. Tell me your secret. But what I want to talk about today is this idea about this defensiveness that we all experience that prevents us from being able to hear what's being said and see what is happening in our relationships and what the people that were in relationships actually need from us, which is basically that they want to get closer.
We don't bring things up with people because we want to create distance in our relationship. We bring things up with people because we want to get closer. And so I sort of laugh tongue in cheek.
When you're married, you just, you get into arguments. When you're in friendships, you don't always agree. And certainly when you're parenting, you get feedback that's not very comfortable sometimes and so do kids.
And when we defend, we cannot hear. And when we defend, we cannot improve. And so if you want to have close relationships in which there is a give and a take and good communication and we're always kind of working to make things better, defensiveness has to go.
Defensiveness is effectively putting a shield in front of you made of steel. And when we have our shields up, no one can get in. So it doesn't help to improve relationships or to bring us closer.
It really just deflects people. You know, I want to talk about this because when we can't connect, we don't feel good, my friends. We feel sad.
We feel lonely. We feel unseen and not validated, right? And so when we can't connect, we aren't joined with the people in our lives. And defensiveness literally prevents connection.
We do all kinds of stuff in our defensiveness that actually does long-term damage to relationships. I've sat in this room with a lot of people and talked about relationships and how we connect and how we disconnect. And what I'll tell you is that defensiveness is one of the main things that I see as a barrier to people being able to be connected in a way that they feel is fulfilling.
So, you know, when we are always holding a shield, and then sometimes defensiveness can be a sword too, right? Because me, myself, I tend to very quickly put up my shield so that I'm not, so that my feelings don't get hurt by the feedback that's coming my way. But also, I hold a sword at the ready in case I need to give a good poke. Do you have a shield and a sword, right? How are we going to connect when we both are holding shields and swords? In order to connect, we must be open, which is vulnerable.
And for some of us, that can be really scary. But I want to dream for a moment about what would relationships be like if people weren't so defensive, right? What would it be like if we had an easy breezy dialogue where we can be open to feedback, give feedback, be really intentional in our relationships with each other, and learn to kind of see feedback in the relationship as like growth work, not hurtful, right? Feedback would be a way to get closer as opposed to kind of this idea of like, and now we're going to sit down and talk about our relationship and who's going to get their shield out first and who's going to get their sword out first, right? And I will say, not every bit of feedback is something we need to modify our behavior around, okay? So just because somebody has an issue with how you are in a relationship, it actually doesn't mean that you have to change in any way. That's your choice.
Maybe you decide you don't actually want to change what's being told to you because you're not ready to or you don't think it's an issue. Maybe that relationship just ends up not being a good fit for you, right? But see, here's the funny thing about relationships is that when we get into any kind of relationship with a person, we have to understand that they're not like us. They don't perceive the world like us.
They don't like things the same as us. They don't feel the same feelings at the same times that we feel. If we're not open to the fact that we're very, very, very different, we can have a lot of problems.
We can have a lot of problems relating. You know, we use the word relating, but what it means is we understand each other. We're willing to let somebody else be who they are and we're going to be who we are and we're going to make room for each other in the relationship.
So let's talk about things, what we can do about defensiveness. So first, I want to talk about when you feel defensive and what you can do about that. You know, sometimes it's like we get feedback all the time.
We get it through our kids' teachers or we get it through work or we get it through our spouse. Sometimes we get it out in the world. Sometimes we get it from our children.
Sometimes we get it from our friends, right? So there's a lot of feedback coming our way and it would be easy to think to yourself, like, I just am not good at relationships, right? And so an easier thing to do is just take feedback as information and then you can decide what to do with that information. The other thing is, and I always laugh, you know, there's a lot of laughter in my therapy office because I'm able to kind of look at life and see that it's funny when other people aren't. But, you know, we always think like, oh, we're going to sit down and we're going to talk about this.
Like, listen, that's not a one conversation thing. So if you're having a conflict with your spouse or a friend or someone in your family, understand that instead of one conversation, difficult topics are multiple conversations. So your responsibility as a grown-up or as a person in general is just to, like, be willing.
And I could do a whole podcast episode on this idea of just being willing, right? But we don't want to. We don't want to have conflict. We don't want to have serious conversations.
It prevents us from listening and it prevents us from speaking. So what I would say is, like, be accountable in your relationships. Like, be willing to have difficult conversations.
Those are the only area that we can grow from, right? And so, you know, a lot of people talk about, let's just be happy. Like, let's see what's good. And I say, absolutely.
Yes, do that. And also be willing to have regular conversations about areas that could be improved, okay? And, you know, what's really important is that when you're getting ready to have a difficult conversation, you have to be accountable to your body as well by breathing. So one thing that tends to happen when we get into what we perceive as a difficult conversation, even if it's just like, hey, can we figure out kind of what to do about the recycling situation in the garage, for just an example off the top of my head, we get all elevated, right? And so that's not helpful and leads us right to pulling out our shield and our sword.
So when I say breathe, I'm not just giving you this cliche answer about like, yeah, you should totally breathe all the time. Duh, you're breathing right now. What I'm saying is when you're having difficult conversations, you need to be monitoring your nervous system and your breathing system to make sure that you're not entering into a fight or flight mode.
Because fight or flight mode is when we get out the shield and the sword, okay? And no connection and no listening and nothing good happens there. So take responsibility to keep your system calm when you're having important conversations with people you care about. And the other thing that I would say is always focus on content, not the delivery.
And not always, but when a conversation comes up for the first time, focus on the content, not the delivery for now. Because the delivery is a project for another time, is what I would say. But one of the things that leads us into defensiveness is when the delivery sucks, we get so wrapped up in like, how can you talk to me like that? And how dare you treat me this way? When really what the content is underneath it all is this kind of vulnerability and wanting to connect better, typically.
Pay attention. Be open to hearing what the feedback is underneath the delivery, right? And if you tend to get defensive, then I would say just be quiet, right? And listen to kind of what's going on in your mind. Because typically when we're getting feedback, we either deny it, we justify it, or we turn that shit around on the other person, which I can do like a champ in case you ever need instructions for that.
So denying, justifying, and blaming, those things are also signs that the shield and the sword is out and there's not going to be any connection. So if you find that that's what's happening, step back from that and pause and get your system calm. Ask for a break if you need one, right? Not every conversation has to end in solution.
Meaning, again, not every conversation is a one conversation deal, right? In our house, if we're trying to work out some sort of conflict, whether it's about the dishes or the deeper meaning of our relationship, we have a full understanding that it's going to be a many conversation thing. It's like a mini series, right? I mean, wouldn't you rather have many shorter, more emotionally regulated conversations than the knockdown drag out? I cannot stand the knockdown drag out. I've gotten so tired of the knockdown drag out.
Like I can't sit for three hours with the crying and the Kleenex and the defensiveness and the shields and the swords and the love and the connection and then the swords. It's a whole thing, right? I don't want to do that anymore. So what I've realized in my own life and in my work is that it's much better for our bodies and our brains to just chunk that stuff up a little bit.
It can be a longer conversation. So quickly, I want to say, like if you have a partner that tends to be defensive, which, you know, again, like defensiveness is a human thing, not a specific trait for specific people. But what I would say is that you can learn to talk with your partner in a different way.
Like if you know that they get really triggered and get defensive, then there's a different way that you could talk with them that maybe wouldn't ignite that part, that, you know, sort of wounded part of who they are. Learn to talk about relationships from an I perspective, not a you perspective. And we talk about this a lot.
And again, I could go on and on about it. But do some work here. Discover what you need and ask for that, right? I need to be, you know, asked how I'm feeling.
I need to be checked in with regularly. I need more snuggles, right? Or I need help around the house. And here is what I need specifically, right? The other thing is just be willing to call out your own and your partner's defensiveness and be willing to course correct.
Meaning like, I can see that you're getting defensive. And I don't, I'm not trying to put you in the position of feeling like you need to defend yourself. I'm trying to create connection.
So let's course correct. Meaning there's always that chance to start again, right? There's always that chance to pause. So the other thing is, and this is a skill to cultivate for every situation.
And I never can think of a situation in which open-ended questions are not our great idea. Okay. So ask open-ended questions instead of saying, well, this is how it is.
And this is this, and this is blah, blah, blah. What about just saying, can we come up with a different way to communicate about the kids? Or can we come up with a different way to share the dishes in the evening? Can we come up with a different bedtime routine? Right? I'm feeling disconnected. How can we connect in a way that we can both feel good? That's an open-ended question.
An open-ended question is basically a question for which you haven't already got a pre-planned answer, my friend. It's a vulnerable question. It means open.
Anything goes, baby. You might hear something that you never expected to hear. If we're open, we can move into some different territory in our relationships.
If we're always holding our shield and our sword, there's only one way that things can go, and that's a fight. Right? So in order to deal with defensiveness, I think the biggest thing I want to say today to you is just be willing to be vulnerable. Be willing to talk about hard stuff.
Be willing to lower the shield. Be willing to see somebody else's shield as a wound and help them feel safe to lower their shield. Be willing to learn how to communicate in a totally different way.
You know, in my house, when we get into defensiveness, which John and I are both can be very defensive, what we do is we just sort of like step back and state the overarching purpose of the conversation. For example, when you're married to a therapist, the overarching conversation is like, I want to be connected, and I'm trying to figure out how we can be better connected. And I really think that that translates to everyone.
We all really want to be connected. So if you just go back to the overarching purpose of the conversation and be willing to come back to it. And so again, like it's not one conversation.
If there's defensiveness, that means the conversation has gone in the wrong direction and we need a course correct, or the conversation needs to be started over another time. Just be willing. Be willing to be vulnerable.
Be open to learning. And we can all get closer in our relationships. Isn't that what we're after? Right? So do you get defensive? Is that something that is worth taking a look at? And how does it impact your relationships? Keep your eyes peeled for yourself, my friend.
So many times when we listen to self-help things or, you know, like mental health tips or whatever, we think about how those can be applied to the people in our lives that are driving us crazy. And what I would say is just look inward. That's what this podcast is here to help you do.
Continue to look inward. Continue to do your own work. And I, my friend, will be here with you because I'm doing the work too.
We'll get that recycling in the garage taken care of one way or the other. You and me. See you soon.
Before you go, let me ask you a question. Do you think about things way more than you think you should? Do you go over and over situations or conversations or conflicts in your mind to the point where it basically drives you bananas? Overthinking is a major complaint of people entering my therapy practice and my private group actually. And it's not that complicated to get a handle on.
It's just like any other personal growth topic, guys. You got to just be willing to dig into it a little bit. When people don't get a handle on the overthinking habit, they tend to end up with an anxiety problem.
So I created a super affordable online class that will teach you about how to get rid of all that thinking. It's $37, you guys. And you know me, there will be homework.
It's way worth the investment. It's just a complaint I hear a lot that has a relatively simple path to solution. So I wanted to just share it in a simple method.
It's on my website at rebeccahuntermsw.com. It's called The Overthinking Solution because you guys, some problems can actually be solved. Thanks so much for listening. This podcast is not meant to be a substitute for therapy, but I hope it was super helpful for you in any case.
I want to be part of some much needed change, but I'm going to need your help. Please subscribe and review the podcast, recommend it to your friends and family, and share it on social media. We're living in the digital age, people.
Let's do some good where we can, all right? Visit my website at rebeccahuntermsw.com to have access to resources, videos, and the show notes if that interests you. And again, I'm so grateful you're listening to Take Out Therapy. Thanks.
